Joe Giovannoli  

You’re listening to the Tip of the Law podcast where we invite top leaders from the legal industry, including managing partners, CMOs, directors of marketing, legal industry providers, and more to join us for engaging 30 minute Fireside Chat style discussions. This week I’m speaking with Jennifer Cona, founder of Cona Elder Law. Jennifer is one of New York’s most highly regarded Elder Law and Estate Planning attorneys and has locations throughout Long Island and Manhattan. Jennifer is a board member of Long Island Alzheimer’s and Dementia Center and United Way. Jennifer and her team help families during some of their greatest times of need, and they do it with the utmost compassion. Without further delay. Let’s get to the Tip of the Law with your host Joe Giovannoli. Jen, thanks for joining me today.

Jennifer Cona  

Great to be here. Joe, good to see you.

Joe Giovannoli  

Yes, you as well. So we have a lot to talk about today. I’m really excited. You know, and as I mentioned to you, when we started to prep for this, I always like to ask and start out with something like a softball, right? And the interesting fact question is my favorite one, so I’m going to throw it at you. Can you tell us one interesting fact about yourself that people may not know?

Jennifer Cona  

Okay, well, people may not know that on my breaks from college, where I would go home to was Saudi Arabia.

Joe Giovannoli  

That’s wild. What? Tell me about that. I need to, I need to understand a little bit more. 

Jennifer Cona  

Well, after I left for college, my parents moved to Dar Ron, Saudi Arabia. They’re both educators. My dad was a superintendent of schools. And my mom was a teacher. And they moved over there to run the American school system for the Aramco company. So that was where I’d spend my vacations. And it was certainly very interesting. I’m a world traveler, I absolutely love to travel, but had not done any traveling in the Middle East. And it was a completely different experience. As you can probably imagine. The whole, the whole process and being tall and blonde. I really, really stuck out in the Middle East for sure. And not necessarily in a good way. But it was definitely really interesting.

Joe Giovannoli  

And now, have you, have you gone back? Since? Or do you go there often?

Jennifer Cona  

Only when they were there, so they’ve since retired? Because I would go there for all of my breaks.

Joe Giovannoli  

Wow. That’s, that’s incredible. That’s great. So is it as hard as everybody says that it is there? 

Jennifer Cona  

Yes, it is. Yeah, but it was just such an interesting cultural experience. You know, unlike going to, you know, Europe or something else, it was just really, really fascinating, you know, like having to duck into a restaurant before the prayer call. And you know, things like that are just things that I was not familiar with, and most people aren’t. So it was just really, really cool.

Joe Giovannoli  

Wow, that is awesome. That’s a very interesting fact. And I’ve known you for a long time. And I did not know that. So thank you for sharing. That’s cool. Awesome. So you own an amazing, amazing Elder Law and Estate Planning firm. What made you get into that?

Jennifer Cona  

Actually, elder law found me. So after I graduated from law school, I took a clerkship and I started getting all these Medicaid regulatory cases at the time. And I really liked digging into the rags, it was very meaty. And at that time, elder law wasn’t really a field. And people were trying to protect assets and set up trust, and there was no body of law at the time. So it was a real opportunity to be creative, to look at other areas of law to see what I could borrow from to make analogies as to what you could do and couldn’t do. So it was just really wide open. And I really love the opportunity to get creative and be an advocate and things like that. So it was a one year clerkship. And there were two law firms in Manhattan practicing elder law at the time, so I went with one of them. And the rest is kind of history, but I just absolutely loved it. Just for the advocacy for the ability to take care of families, and all that comes with it. I always knew I would be in some kind of advocacy role, because that’s just how I’m wired. And it’s and I usually like to advocate for the underdog. And this really kind of speaks to that.

Joe Giovannoli  

Wow, that’s amazing. That’s great that you grabbed on to that so early on, because you know many people don’t don’t find necessarily what they love or what they’re going to be great at right out of the gates. So that’s really really, really cool. You know, there’s a lot of areas that you cover. So maybe for our less-educated-in-the-space listeners can you just talk about, you know, the suite of services that you provide on both the estate planning and elder care and elder law side of things?

Jennifer Cona  

Sure, absolutely. So at Cona Elder Law, we help families of all backgrounds, all areas of wealth from middle income people who need help with, if mom’s going to a nursing home, let’s say or assisted living, and they want to protect assets, we help with that. And we help with estate planning for very high net worth individuals who have $100 million estate, for example, and everything in between, because really, that’s just the geographics or the demographics of Long Island. So we’re able to help everyone with that. So that can be all areas of estate planning, asset protection planning, advanced directives, which is Power of Attorney health care proxy and living will, which is so, so crucially important. I just had a matter the other day where a man in his 50s had a tragic accident, and he didn’t have a power of attorney. So now we have to bring a guardianship proceeding to do Medicaid planning, social security disability application, all these things that if he had had a power of attorney, which would have been so easy to do, we could have avoided that court proceeding. So just things like that. So we do the guardianships, we do social security disability applications, we do estate administration kind of goes hand in hand with all of this, when a loved one passes away, we’ll do the probate proceeding or the estate administration, we do estate litigation if there’s family fighting over an estate. So it’s really kind of cradle to grave, all these services that come with families and their needs. 

Joe Giovannoli  

Yeah, thank you. That’s, of course, a very succinct way of putting it. And I know that just in working with your firm, we’ve, you know, we’ve learned so much about the space. But you know, something that really hits home for me is you know, so my father had passed away of ALS. And, you know, when he got diagnosed or early on, he was never somebody that really thought about a will or anything like that. And I just remember, it was like a freight train, like, we just needed to get things going. And you know, he needed to, you know, have all the proper planning in place. And so, and then I just recently had a son and now I’m thinking the same way, right is this like those those little life events that maybe you don’t necessarily think about and big life events, not to say they’re a little bit big life events that happened that your first thought may not necessarily be, hey, I need to update my will, hey, I need to set up a trust or, or, you know, put protection in place for my family. But it is so incredibly important. And what you guys do is just in the way that you do it, which we’re going to talk about in a little while. It, you know, it’s just, it’s just so impressive. So that’s great. Thank you for, thank you for kind of going over that. So why did you decide to start your own firm and run your own firm? You know, it’s being an entrepreneur and being the founder and CEO of a business, that’s a tall job. And as you know, it’s sometimes very thankless. But tell me, tell me a little bit about why you decided to go out on your own and actually scale a firm like you have.

Jennifer Cona  

If only I had known how tall and thankless it was. Was too late now? Yeah, right. Well, the truth of the matter was, is that I was working at an elder law firm and didn’t necessarily like some of the things I was saying, the culture wasn’t great. People didn’t feel appreciated, things like that. So I kind of was taking mental note of it really not with any real purpose, but just mental note of if I had my own firm, what would I do differently, and just kept mulling that over for a while. And I also was really, for some reason, wired and sensitive to how other businesses ran. You know, like, if I went into a store to buy supplies, I was paying attention to how things ran there and what they were doing with customer service and things like that. Or if I pick up my dry cleaning, you know, what were they doing operationally, or how were they again, how are they treating clients, I was always kind of fascinated, just not intentionally just sort of work that way. And I’ve had so many different jobs over the course of my life, whether that’s in retail or restaurants, or I worked for an appellate law firm, I lobbied on Capitol Hill. I mean, I’ve done this whole breadth of all kinds of different interesting work. And so I feel like I have all these different perspectives. So as I was thinking about these things that I liked and didn’t like where I was, I thought, you know what? Maybe I will just give this a go. Try my own firm, the worst that could happen is it doesn’t work out, I’ll get another job. I knew I was a good lawyer. So I knew I could handle that part. But let me try starting my own firm, just myself, where I can start implementing my own core values. Because I wanted to create a place where I would want to work. As simple as that, you know, where, where I could help other people feel appreciated. Where I could just make it, you know, a place where I would want to work. And if I want to work there, other people will want to work there, it was as simple as that. I had no idea where it was gonna go, I didn’t have a business plan. I didn’t have, you know, anything like that. I just said, let me give this a shot and see if this is something that can work. It wasn’t really about making money, or I just wanted to make a living and make a quality place where I can help clients and do what feels good for me. 

Joe Giovannoli  

That’s awesome. And I would say that you’ve definitely accomplished that, you know, both of us being members of Entrepreneurs Organization, I love hearing the origin stories, which is always why I like to work this question in where I can, you know, and it’s a great conversation starter. But, you know, you talked a lot about culture. And you talked a lot about, you know, how you recognize where you were that, you know, the culture necessarily wasn’t, what you were hoping for, are what you’re interested in. And it’s amazing how many people I talked to that started businesses that that is the exact reason why they went out and did it on their own, right? It’s like, I definitely can do this better. I know I can, I’m gonna bet on myself, right? Because if I’m not gonna better myself, who’s going to? So I just, I absolutely, I love that I have a very similar story to yours. And so I have a lot of respect for that. But you know, Jen, I, I asked the question of every guest that I have about what their superpower is, and you just segwayed perfectly into what I believe is your superpower. But why don’t you tell us what you think your superpower is?

Jennifer Cona  

I would say it’s the super strength of my core values. And yeah, occasion to that.

Joe Giovannoli  

I agree, I think you very much in everything that you do, you live by your core values. And, you know, they’re not just a bunch of words on a wall for you, you know, they’re, they’re definitely the tenants of how you live your life. Can you can you talk to us a little bit about how you came up with your core values, and, and you know, how you have brought those to life with your firm?

Jennifer Cona  

Sure, um, first, I would say just sort of as background, it’s kind of how I was, it is how I was raised. So I was raised by parents that were very dedicated to giving back to the community. We didn’t have a lot, but they were always very, they donated their time, always. And so that was how I was raised. And that was just how I view the world: that is what you do. So that’s a real motivator for me. And really important to me. And that’s part of what we do here at the firm. So our core values, our commitment to each other, our commitment to the clients integrity, teamwork, social responsibility, things like that. So how we came up with it was as a team, so I, you know, or anybody at the top should not be imposing core values on their team, you need to do it together. So that was also something really important. 

And we make sure to reinforce them as a group, talk about them and give shoutouts to people who have exhibited core values throughout the week, when we do our huddles, things like that. Because you do have to reinforce them, you have to make sure everybody is aligned with them, and constantly kind of talk about that. And it really makes for a good cohesive group, because you’re all in the same boat rowing in the same direction. And you need to reinforce that.

Joe Giovannoli  

Yeah, that’s, that’s so so true. I do feel confident that the most successful businesses in the world are the ones that their people are all rowing in the same direction with the core values, they’re a great culture fit. You know, we have a motto at our company that you hire for culture. First and foremost, you know, most skill can be taught, but you can’t teach culture. So embryonic math. Yeah, I absolutely love that. And, and, again, as somebody that has, has worked with your firm, I know that every person that I come in contact with, they very much live up to those core values. 

Jennifer Cona  

We have found that if somebody’s not working out, it’s usually because they don’t have our core values. And maybe we didn’t see it right away, or we didn’t see it in the interview or something else. But that’s usually the problem when you look a little deeper. And when we’re, you know, and like you said, they may have all the skills in the world, but if they don’t have the core values there’s gonna be a little head butting with everybody else on the team. And that’s usually the root of it.

Joe Giovannoli  

Yep, Yep, definitely. I agree, I definitely see that. And we’ve had similar situations too. So you know, and I think any business owner you’re going to talk to has their finger on the pulse of culture and actually puts that first. They’re gonna, they’re gonna agree with that 100%. So we’re going to take a quick break here, we just wanted to take a moment to acknowledge our sponsor for the Tip of the Law podcast, 9Sail. 9Sail is a law firm-focused digital marketing agency specializing in providing lead generation and awareness building services, such as SEO, paid search, content creation, and digital public relations. Grow your firm with 9Sail. 

So Elder Law, estate planning, this is a super competitive space, you know, throughout the country, but you know, even here on Long Island, and you know, Manhattan and of course, Manhattan, the industry has really taken off quite a bit. And most of the big law firms have elder planning and estate planning practice groups now. Right. So, you know, we talked about the core values being, you know, front and center for you, but how do you kind of parlay that into being your competitive advantage.

Jennifer Cona  

Um, I think how it really plays out for us is the commitment to each other trickles down to our commitment to our clients. So we go the extra mile for each other here. And in turn, everybody here is going the extra mile for the clients. So that’s really kind of the premise or just how it works, as it relates to our core values. And the other way it plays out is that we analyze every matter here as if it’s a family member. So someone comes in with a situation and we say to ourselves, okay, if this was my mom, or my dad, what would I do? Because that really helps you figure out, you know, do I want to do something a little risky? Or maybe not, you know, is this a good case to take up on appeal, maybe, and maybe it is, but maybe you wouldn’t want to do that, if that was your mom, maybe my mom doesn’t have that kind of risk tolerance or something. And that’s how you want to approach it with a client. So I think maybe another law firm would be like, oh, we just, you know, maybe want to make a name for ourselves. And let’s take it all the way. But we don’t do that here, we are really sensitive to, you know, my mom wouldn’t want to do that, or whatever the case may be. So that’s how we approach everything, same as you know, having in mind the core values, and that makes it very different.

Joe Giovannoli  

So you, your core person that you’re hiring, has to be a very empathetic and compassionate person. Absolutely. I’m curious how I’m curious how you start to, you know, try to identify that during the, through the interview process, because that is, I mean, that’s something where you can you can know somebody for a long time, and you can have some signals, but you know, really knowing how empathetic and how compassionate they are. It does take time and building a relationship. So how do you effectively find and, you know, kind of measure whether or not the team member that may be coming into the organization meets those criteria?

Jennifer Cona  

We try to find out what kind of floats their boat, what do they do outside of work? What do they do for fun? Are they charitably inclined, you know, do they have passions that show that they’re giving back to the community, you know, it could be maybe even as simple as they’re dedicated to, you know, taking care of animals or something. They walk dogs on the weekend, I mean, that’s going to be kind of a compassionate empathetic person, something like that. So we spend time in addition to ferreting out other skills, which is really just on the resume, we’ll spend time getting to know them as a person, and what makes them tick. And that’s where you’re gonna find out those kinds of things. Or even if they start talking to us about family members, you know, maybe they have a sibling with special needs or something, you know, then you’re going to kind of know where their empathy is like, you know, so that’s, it’s that kind of stuff. So we’re, we’ll spend maybe, you know, a third of the time on skills and history of jobs and the whole rest of the time on you know, what makes them tick. And we asked them what superpower would be actually great.

Joe Giovannoli  

I love, I love that question. If I ever need a good conversation starter if it’s an entrepreneur, the first thing I ask is like So what made you get into this right and if it’s, you know, if it’s somebody somebody else that isn’t maybe doesn’t run a company, but like, what’s your superpower? Right? And it just, it sparks this great conversation? You really piqued my curiosity though, right? So I know for myself having gone through with my dad with ALS, like there are little triggers for me where maybe I’m too close to a situation right if something hits too close to home for me where it’s maybe too difficult to act objectively or whatever? Do you find that you have to kind of work with your team to make sure that they are, you know, ready and able to take on a certain a certain challenge or a certain case, like I’m sure with very empathetic and compassionate people, that has to be a little bit of a challenge from time to time? How do you guys navigate stuff like that? 

Jennifer Cona  

Through teamwork, always. So we always have someone available that can bounce ideas off of each other, and that is looking over our shoulders. So we have a quality control process for every single matter. And it’s really, you know, a lot for that purpose, because some of the work is very difficult, as you can imagine, not skill set wise, but emotionally, you know. And so we always had that quality control. And we had an open door policy, that was one of the things that I took away from the place I was before, the doors were shot all the time. And I really didn’t like that. So our doors are always open, anybody can come in anytime, and discuss a case and say, you know, I want to do this, but I’m not so sure and whatever. Because sometimes you can be a little blinded, and you just need to bounce it off somebody. Almost always our instincts are right, but you need to talk it out. Sometimes you just simply need to talk it out. That’s kind of what this area of law is all about. You have to collaborate, you have to talk ideas out. It was very difficult. When I started my practice, and I was a solo, it’s very hard to be a solo in this area of law, you need to talk these issues out.

Joe Giovannoli  

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that’s really, really important that that’s a big nugget. And I think it’s a nugget that all law firms and all practice groups, you know, all practice groups, within larger law firms, all practice areas, like, you know, boutique, more boutique firms really need to take, right it is that, you know, no matter if you’re a couple of person shop or a large shop, you know, that collaboration and fostering that collaboration, and that teamwork, and those discussions will allow you to do so much right in and in your, in your business to right, there are some overlaps of other services that maybe you could provide to your clients. But you know, even looking at some of the larger firms that have, you know, 20 plus practice groups within their firm. Without that, you know, facilitation of that collaboration and the open door policy, you know, nobody’s going to know what the other hand is doing. Because everybody’s just keeping to themselves. And you’re really, you’re missing out on a lot of opportunity. So I think, you know, from a client service perspective, and from a culture perspective, everything you’re saying is amazing. But I also feel like from a business growth perspective, if you don’t engage in conversations, one of your newer attorneys may not know that you can actually provide another service to a client that could really benefit them down the line. And they probably, they don’t know about it, and maybe that new attorney, or that new associate doesn’t know it either. Right. So you’re right. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, that’s just amazing. And we work with a lot of law firms. And you know, not every firm thinks like, like that. So that’s, you know, really just amazing, amazing work that you guys are doing and building a great firm. So, we’re coming up to the top of the episode, on the Tip of the Law, the whole point of this is to ask for one tip, or one nugget that our listeners can take, maybe take back to their firms and implement, that’s going to make an impact, a pretty immediate impact. I have a feeling I know where this is going. But what was the tip that you can leave with our listeners today?

Jennifer Cona  

So my tip is probably obvious: take the time to work out your mission and your core values. But do it with your team, and do it with a consultant. We did it with a consultant. And it was really, really helpful because you may have blind spots. And you may think you have certain ideas about yourself and how people see you. But the team may see things differently. And I feel like only a consultant leading you through it can really break through those barriers. So I think that part is really, really important. And then find ways to make sure you’re reinforcing it all the time. Because like you said before, you could have words on a wall. But they’ll be really meaningless unless you’re reinforcing it, celebrating it, discussing it all the time, every week, what have you because it does no good to etch it on the wall and forget about it. So I would absolutely say that’s the most impactful thing. It’s really changed our business around here. And it’s really remarkable, because I will be the first to admit I was skeptical about it. It’s worth every penny of investment to get a consultant to do that with you.

Joe Giovannoli  

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for your time today and thanks for all the insights and I got to know even a little bit better than I knew before. So that’s awesome too and looking forward to releasing this episode we’re going to include all of Jennifer’s information on the page for the podcast. So if you do want to get in touch with Jennifer or Cona Elder Law for any matters, please feel free to use that page and do so. Again. Jen, thank you so much for being here and looking forward to seeing you soon at the next EO event.

Jennifer Cona  

Thank you, Joe. Always good to be with you.